The Final 2

Congrats to you both on making final 2. I don’t have any major, serious questions because you’ve both explained yourselves and have answered many questions. I will read through everything again before making a final decision.

For some fun: I want both of the finalists to assign each juror one song from the Rise and Shine catalogue that you think embodies your perception of them and their time in the game. Your music taste will determine how I vote (kidding, maybe )

Ember - I know you have a lot of questions to answer but something else just keeps coming to my mind and I’m sorry to keep taking up your time with my questions lol I can be patient with an answer but you are right in a lot of things you are saying about me and you having similar games however I tried everything in my power to make sure if I was at the end, Steve would not be there. I have respect for both of your games and agree there are similarities but I tried to do something about it to prevent myself from being in a similar situation as you are. At this point it does feel like you needed Steve a lot more than he needed you and that’s why you made the move that you did to keep him. Do you think there was any possibility of you making the final 2 with steve leaving at the final 9 and why weren’t you willing to take the chance with going forward with others who would have been easier for you to beat at the end in both competitions and possibly the vote (by this I mean going forward with me you Sam Dorothy as the opposition to Debbie Kim and NTW)

You’re fine Sandra lol! So yes, what I basically mean is if you were in my shoes and weren’t able to take Steve out I think you would be fighting the same uphill battle that i’m clearly fighting right now. Yes, you did try taking Steve out at 9. So you did try to make that not happen. I also did try though I just couldn’t when he kept winning comps. I tried at 8, then he won HOH at 7, I was gonna do it at 6, then he wins the counting comp. He won HOH at 5, and then tried to get him at 4 and he wins POV. Like trust me, I did try and was putting chats together last minute with people in the house to try and combat Steve. He just knows how to win a competition. I think as much as I needed Steve at certain points he needed me too. For example, Tony was gonna nominate him as early as Week 2 had I not swayed him. And this is the big situation, but I am the reason he stayed at 9. It took a lot talking to Dorothy and Sam to see if they felt the same way. I think Sam would’ve done it regardless but I don’t know if Dorothy would have. So I believe Steve needed me just as much. I do think I could’ve made Final 2 if I kept NTW instead! But there are so many variables. You really never know. I think I could have been way closer to Debbie at that point and maybe used her as my sword and shield instead of Steve. “Used” being used respectfully here, Debbie If I marched forward with you, Sam, Dorothy and Max who knows how that would have went because NTW and Debbie I think could’ve beasted out the rest of those competitions and I could’ve gone earlier. So yes, there’s always a possibility I could still be here but I think what I did paid off because i’m sitting here.

Steve Harrington wrote:

Jerry The Mouse wrote:

Steve Harrington wrote:

Jerry The Mouse wrote:

Thank you both for the well written speeches and all the time you both put into this game. It was an epic one, with an epic post count, epic players, epic powers...I could keep listing things but we all just lived it the past month and change.

Steve! You played an incredible game...one of if not the best BBQ has ever seen! some of your stats were insane and something you should take pride in no matter how this vote goes! My vote is more likely going to you for now but it's not solid bc though you played a great social game, you brought the the person who played the best social game.

Hi Jerry <3 Thank you for acknowledging my stats! I actually did not mention my speech, but it was also intentional that I had 8 veto wins but only 5 hoh wins (3 of which were not until literally after day 36); I’d truly wanted to only leverage my power when necessary, and I felt it was easiest to minimize blood on my hands using vetoes, so I ONLY gunned for HOH’s with which I could accomplish something specific, such as flushing powers & pretending I was trying to flush the DPOV with my first HOH, having 4 solid options to go after upon my second HOH, and yet again having solid targets with my third and fourth, taking out Kim and Debbie, my biggest threats all season, and then of course the final HOH to land myself here. The Vetoes were my insurance, and using or not using a veto seldom landed me with any repercussions, but rather they kept me looking useful to my allies. I even leveraged my ability to win a veto as a reason my allies should not ever want to be put on the block with me, giving them more incentive to gun for an HOH instead, because renoms could always be less predictable for them.

I do believe I brought someone with a killer social game, but I do agree, too, that my social game was strong, particularly even WITH Ember, using HER sociability, sometimes, to further my own game, as she wanted me in alliances with her time and time again, so I kept her extremely close, letting her take the heat for MAKING these alliances, meanwhile I reaped many benefits from them all, bonding with the individuals in said alliances wherein she was the one coming off as shadier than me for it.

See and I think some of the other jury members may be shorting you by seeing you as a one dimensional comp beast (granted I haven’t been in jury house in a while, idk what there people are thinking, I’m gonna read this room instead of the 400 pages over in jury house lol) but you were much much more than that, as evidenced by our conversations! I think if I would’ve survived Ember our deal would’ve actually held up, like it made a ton of sense and we would’ve gone far together, so I need you to speak more on your social game! What are some specific social game moves that you feel like you can own over Ember? How did you overcome certain obstacles that I happened to lay in your way, which i didn’t even realize I was doing lol, in the evictions of Jules and Squirt?

Thank you Jerry! I think so too tbh, we had a lot of logical reasons to not go after one another for a bit, but in all fairness, I was also overaligned to an extent, so who even knows how long it would have lasted, but definitely we could have been covered a bit! I also feel like I had the read on you that if either of us broke our deals, neither of us would be mad at each other, which made me feel even more secure talking deals with you, I feel like we both operated similarly and I had a quick feel for that.

In terms of social moves over Ember, I think my ability to pivot was one of my best traits. You evicted the TWO people who hit number one on my trust ranks: Jules, then Squirt, but each time, I emphasized the fact that I was losing an ally, wanting to be seen as isolated and in NEED of people, as everyone knows someone who needs you is more loyal than someone who doesn't, so I made that work, and it positioned me more in the core of relationships. When Jules left, it got me closer to Jenn and Sandra. When Squirt left, it got me closer to Ember, and it caused me to tighten ranks, but also shift my trajectory a bit; I could no longer be the person who was on the bottom of the alliance with a bunch of outside allies that I'd be willing to bank on, and instead, I tightened up, and I wiggled my way in more toward the center of my alliance, relaying more information than ever to people like Jenn, Sam and Sandra (I saw Sam and Sandra's relationship, and I wanted in, and I'd had an alliance with Sandra and Squirt, so it was even more ammo to get closer to her and wiggle my way in, and we made a trio, for example in the aftermath). Basically, I had to move on to other extenuating allies to reposition and feel safer again.

In terms of other social moves over Ember, I do feel I was able to manipulate outcomes, as I mentioned in Ted nominating Nagisa and being able to save Matt from eviction that round, I'd say in falling right in the middle of the Sam v Webkinz eviction to be good in both scenarios, and then also in voting to keep Webkinz without Debbie being mad at me, and ALSO in my candidness with people, I was able to tell people where my votes were going from then on out without any fear, and ended up on the right side of the vote every time after the Jenn vote; in fact, when I voted "wrong" I often KNEW I was voting wrong, such as in keeping Webkinz and Jenn, because earning loyalty and keeping a divide was much more important than simply going with the house. Normally I do not play like that, but this game, I knew the right moves were to vote where I needed to facilitate greater trust and an even stronger divide.

Fantastic answer, couldn’t have been better! Can you speak to how hard it was to be seen as a comp beast, from a fairly early stage of the game? I value a behind the scenes game, as I’m totally considering voting for Ember still, she’s really killing it right now, but i also know that it can be extremely difficult to play, as I’m sure Debbie can attest to also, when no one wants to take you to the end coupled with the fact that they fear that you can run the table as well

Of course! And I’m sorry but I’m going to keep going lol bc I need to be thorough with this. So essentially, and it’s obviously more complicated than this, but you’re saying that The jury should value your ability to stay away from the block more than Steve’s ability to control the block? That we should focus more on the fact that you placed yourself and Steve in good positions socially and therefore the social heat you took on that he’s mentioned himself was equitable to the comp threat heat that Steve took?

You’re fine too Jerry! Haha. I don’t mind. My fingers hurt like a bitch but it’s all good lmao. I think the Jury should value my ability to not NEED to win things to stay essentially. Which has been the case for Steve since the Final 8. My ability to stay away from the block in this social game I think is huge. I was nominated 3 times out of 67 nominations this season. One of them was Week 1 from The Purge. So out of 67 nominations, I had 2 houseguests put me up on the block. Cruella with a DPOV, and then you Jerry. And yes to a degree. I think without me setting up certain alliances like Seven Stars, that Steve has an even HARDER time. Dorothy and Max were constantly talking about “Steve gotta go. Don’t care care the alliance. Steve gotta go” Like VERY early on. Like even pre jury. I steered them away from that through early on because I knew he would always be a target. Did he last longer than I wanted? Yes, clearly haha. But early on I think I was pivotal in making sure Steve was targeted by even his own allies.

wasnt targeted but even his own allies* ugh sorry

Tony Stark wrote:

Congrats y’all! Good speeches

Steve - “ When Tony was HOH and able to nominate me, he didn’t because an alliance was made with him swiftly, and I immediately came off as someone who was less active in the general sense, not someone who was just not talking to him, and he did not nominate me, and I actually suggested we work together in the Veto competition specifically to garner trust in a more efficient manner, suggesting we work with Matt Bomer too”

Just relaying my thought process - I didn’t nominate you because of Ember actually who I really liked in the beginning. I was going to nom you next to Rebecca, not peach, but ember kept saying you would be a shield for us and number etc lol, so I complied I wanted to show ember I was serious about working with her. You are right when we worked in the veto I trusted you guys

That's very fair that Ember was a large part in me not getting nominated, and I knew Ember liked you, which is why I mentioned her right away as someone I liked to you when I messaged you because I'd gotten a scope of who was already comfortable with you. For example, Ember seemed unbothered that you won and felt safe immediately, and I knew I wanted to get in on that, and so leveraging my connection with her did help a bit, I'd think, but that's fair that most of the credit can be given to her there! But yes, for sure, I thought working on the comp together would be a perfect way to create a bond faster that would make up a bit for lost time

Tony Stark wrote:

More pressing questions -

Steve - I literally had no idea who you were until late jury 🥲
Why should I vote to someone who made me cry over the game, promising me up and down I was safe for days, only to break that deal the first chance you get? I am still very hurt. Who was your ideal f2? Why did Jennifer pool money only to give it to you(great social move on your part)?

That's very fair, I think the reason you did not know me well at all was because I did NOT want to be overaligned, but as u stated upon your eviction, I very much was; the thing is, I TRULY had NO intention of nominating you. I promised you up and down because I did intend on keeping that: similar to Sandra's HOH, my Backdoor target won Veto and removed my Primary target off the block. Jerry, throughout the whole week, had been active in making deals with me, and I knew Ember was going to target Jerry, whereas Jerry and I could have a working relationship. With you, I felt your nominations were never going to exactly be in my benefit, as your side of the house was coming out triumphant more often than not at that point, so I had to make a call I did not at all want to make, because I DID feel good with you and I wanted at least 3-4 people out before I wanted you out. I promised you so strongly because the odds of NTW getting picked for Veto were slim, and it was even MORE slim of a chance for her to WIN and take the target off; probability was in my favor that my words to you would stay true, but luck was not, and so I went back on it.

While that was not my intention, I think the move was the best one for me, because as anticipated, Jerry went home the next week anyway, and there was no use in tarnishing relationships with my alliance, which I needed to rely on more. The other option would have been Debbie, but as I mentioned, her target and our deals were essential to my game, meanwhile you and I, while it COULD have been great, there was not a ton of trust there either. I'm sorry to hear that you actually did cry if that's true though, because I truly never want to blindside anyone that badly in this game The only thing I can say is that I hope the logic in the decision makes sense, and I just hope you know that I did NOT make the decision lightly at alllll.

As for your other questions: Ideal Final 2 was Sam. If not Sam, then Ember or Max (I was largely undecided between the two of them). I figured I needed someone in my own alliance at the end because like I've mentioned, being able to play a similar but better game is easier to flaunt than it is to play completely different and incomparable games wherein jurors would have to vote based on values alone.

Jennifer gave me her money because I was the one who bought her immunity in the VIP lounge on Cruella's HOH, knowing she was in danger, and taking swift action, and I feel I earned a lot of loyalty there in addition to our personal/game bond we already shared. She did not have enough to save herself on her eviction, so she gave it to me on her way out, telling me to give em hell <3

Tony Stark wrote:

“ My game was filled with more active moves and a more solid grasp on Jury Management. I did not lie or string people along”

Hello Steven! I’m right here!!?!

YOU WERE MY EXCEPTION, ILY AND I HOPE I GAVE MY REASONING WELL ENOUGH ABOVE FOR WHY IT WENT DOWN THAT WAY ^^

So you mean to tell me you had no intentions of taking me? Wooooooooow, so all those late-night talks were for naught when you was just gonna clip me anyways? Thanks for the decision.

No, Dorothy. They weren’t for nothing! I had a very close relationship with you and Max. All of our late night talks were real. I wanted you in the end with me. If I didn’t I could have cut you at the final 6 when you were next to Sam! I stayed loyal to you this entire game and you were someone I actually never lied to. When it got down to Final 3, between you and Max I just think I would have had a better shot against Max. I would lost you you, hands down. So I can’t take the person I know is gonna beat me, ya know? I did want you in the Final 3 with me though. I’m sorry if you’re hurt by that but it really is just because I want to win so badly. You know how I feel about you, Dorothy. I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings at all.

Ember McLain wrote:

Of course! And I’m sorry but I’m going to keep going lol bc I need to be thorough with this. So essentially, and it’s obviously more complicated than this, but you’re saying that The jury should value your ability to stay away from the block more than Steve’s ability to control the block? That we should focus more on the fact that you placed yourself and Steve in good positions socially and therefore the social heat you took on that he’s mentioned himself was equitable to the comp threat heat that Steve took?

You’re fine too Jerry! Haha. I don’t mind. My fingers hurt like a bitch but it’s all good lmao. I think the Jury should value my ability to not NEED to win things to stay essentially. Which has been the case for Steve since the Final 8. My ability to stay away from the block in this social game I think is huge. I was nominated 3 times out of 67 nominations this season. One of them was Week 1 from The Purge. So out of 67 nominations, I had 2 houseguests put me up on the block. Cruella with a DPOV, and then you Jerry. And yes to a degree. I think without me setting up certain alliances like Seven Stars, that Steve has an even HARDER time. Dorothy and Max were constantly talking about “Steve gotta go. Don’t care care the alliance. Steve gotta go” Like VERY early on. Like even pre jury. I steered them away from that through early on because I knew he would always be a target. Did he last longer than I wanted? Yes, clearly haha. But early on I think I was pivotal in making sure Steve was targeted by even his own allies.

I get what you’re saying! But if the person who NEEDS to win DOES, over and over and over and over and over and over again, how can we vote for you over them? (Genuinely would love an answer that surprises me and changes my mind) Like yes, you played a better game than Steve pertaining to keeping your odds of getting to the end higher than most, but he BEAT the odds and we all come here to win in the end, not get to the end.

Also just for my peace of mind Steve, had I done max and we both had immunity at f8 did you plan on primarily sticking with your og alliance and having me cut around 7/6 or were you not thinking that far ahead yet? Feel free not to answer and we can talk about it after lol I’m just curious but be sure to answer everyone else first lol

Sam Gardner wrote:

Congrats Steve and Ember for making it to the end! You both played your heart out and deserving games. I am proud that its 2 of the Seven Stars sitting in the end…even though I was never really fond of that alliance from the jump    I loved playing with you both and am thankful for the relationships we built in this game  

For the both of you: Since this is All Stars and we all have played this game before, what are some ways you played this game differently than in your past season(s)?

STEVE you seemed to have covered everything I was going to ask at this point. But for the sake of asking a question; in 54 chocolate pumpkins, I mean words    what was a flaw in your game?

Good luck to you both and you both should be extremely proud of the amazing games you played!

Thank you Sam!! Ilysm!

I think I played this game differently than my past seasons in that I was not afraid to be loyal and fight for my allies; I had extenuating groups, but this game I was a lot less cutthroat and allowed my heart into it a bit more. At the end of the day, I DID always choose the right moves, but there was also a lot more trust built up in me because I'd chosen to stake a lot of my perceived values on a sense of honorability instead of just strictly logic, which, I think, gave me a fair amount of wiggle room at certain instances, and helped me cater to choosing allies and making deals with people who had different values than me: Normally I only care about the cold logic, and that's it, but I stopped being so closed minded about other ways of playing, and in adapting that, I think my game was a lot different.

and NOT THE CHOCOLATE PUMPKINS HAUNTING YOU IM SO SORRY I'd say a flaw in my game was very much in my inability sometimes to always connect on a personal level since I know I'm not as funny and witty naturally compared to others. I think I can somewhat attribute it to the fact that I did not want to be myself at all, because ID's are really important, and I knew being vague was kind of essential, but I think that was very much a flaw, since a bit more personability could have drawn people to me more, but I know I did talk more game than personal oftentimes! If we're talking about a specific flaw, I think my HOH when I missed the mark in backdooring NTW/taking out Kim and had to break my deal with Tony was my biggest flaw, because that's an instance that took away my credibility a lot, as it fucked over a relationship I was feeling good in (at least temporarily) and it was not the plan going into that week; I could have maybe thrown more if I hadn't made a mess I'd have to clean up myself after that week.

Dorothy Gale wrote:

Why should I specifically give any of you my vote?

Ember: I heard some things about you trying to decide if I should be the replacement nom and sit next to Jerry in the event someone used the veto. Is this true? And why?

Steve: I know you kept your word on special occasions, of course when it benefited your game the most. However, you made a promise to me that had I kept you, you would have ensured I get as far as I could. This doesn’t represent when I was on the block next to Sam. Knowing you could’ve beat any of is at that point you decided to go after me and evict me, for the sake of getting an easy win despite knowing you win regardless. Why waste a vote against me in that instance?

I often did keep my word, and I tried to keep my word to you as often as possible tbh. Long term I always wanted Debbie out before you, and in doing so, if I did get evicted, I think you would have managed to possibly get that win tbh, but the reasoning was that you AND Sam kept me, so I promised you both I wanted you each to get as far as possible, therefore, when it came down to it, I really just thought you would have the best odds in beating me in a comp in the future (which you PROVED when we went to a tiebreaker on day 41, scaring the SHIT out of me; if anyone was going to beat me, I felt it was going to be you). At that point, I'd hoped that Ember or Max would change their mind, as I brought up that it was unlikely they'd win against you in the end, and they would have to take out 3 people instead of 2 to get a win, but they stuck with you as a greater asset (which, again, you proved when u almost won that comp). I just overall felt I'd promised you and Sam things pretty equally in that instance, and thus I felt it the most strategic thing to do to vote you out/try to send you out, because I'm a paranoid person. I'm not cocky. I'm confident in my abilities to win a comp wherein it becomes part of my rationale for noms; I don't assume I will lose everything, but I NEVER underestimate and assume I can win out. When it comes to a point where I can tailor the competition to have someone less threatening ply against me, I take that precaution every damn time; you're just a very good player tbh.

EDIT: Missed the first part -- I think you should specifically give me your vote because I played one of the most candid games with you; when I was being shady, you often knew, and we ended up honest with one another; while we fought alongside each other, I know that I made active moves to facilitate the game for myself and only myself though, while ALSO maintaining values with you. Ember sometimes made moves bad for both of you, such as keeping me around, and Ember sometimes had so many alliances she'd have trouble figuring out what to do. I feel like I had a clear vision of this game and how to further myself, and myself alone, and I feel like in coming to the rational calls, I also managed to manipulate many outcomes and shape the nature of the game a bit, which is something I hope you can respect. On your way out, you mentioned thinking how you all HAD to get me out, but I think the fact that you all did not shows that I overcame a LOT, and I must have done something right to navigate here even with thoughts like that in your head.

I get what you’re saying! But if the person who NEEDS to win DOES, over and over and over and over and over and over again, how can we vote for you over them? (Genuinely would love an answer that surprises me and changes my mind) Like yes, you played a better game than Steve pertaining to keeping your odds of getting to the end higher than most, but he BEAT the odds and we all come here to win in the end, not get to the end.

I have never since getting into Big Brother thought competitions mattered in your case to win. Competitions can be extremely random. If Arisa made an endurance challenge one night instead of a mental or if she planned a puzzle one night where someone who is great at puzzles was on the block, it could change absolutely everything. What’s not random is the fact that this game is ALWAYS going to be a social and strategic game first. I fear sometimes people look at this game as if it were The Challenge. The perfect example of this is Janelle and Maggie in BB6. Janelle was loved, Janelle was targeted every week and kept winning to keep herself safe. That’s how she got to the Final 3. Did she by any means play a better game than Maggie? Who had her alliance making moves FOR her? Who made sure she covered all her bases at all times? Who guaranteed that no matter who won that Final 3 HOH competition that they were bringing her? Absolutely not. I did all of those things. I like to show comparisons so you can see that I was the best player this season. Steve won comps, he killed it, it’s amazing and now he is in the end because of it. I played to win in the end too. Do I wish I won a competition to take out Steve? Yes!!! But comps have so many variables in them. Some are straight up just luck. I just think I played better in every aspect of Big Brother minus the competition portion. The portion that I truly believe means the least.

Webkinz Love Frog wrote:

Anyways my vote’s pretty locked in so I don’t really have any questions for you two. Wish you both the best of luck in the rest of your answers though, and I’ll seek all of you tonight for the finale

I missed you  

Thanks Ember & Steve! this decision has become a lot harder than i expected and i will take both of your speeches and answers into consideration when casting my vote! even though i think steve used way more than 54 words

good luck and love you both

Ember McLain wrote:

So you mean to tell me you had no intentions of taking me? Wooooooooow, so all those late-night talks were for naught when you was just gonna clip me anyways? Thanks for the decision.

No, Dorothy. They weren’t for nothing! I had a very close relationship with you and Max. All of our late night talks were real. I wanted you in the end with me. If I didn’t I could have cut you at the final 6 when you were next to Sam! I stayed loyal to you this entire game and you were someone I actually never lied to. When it got down to Final 3, between you and Max I just think I would have had a better shot against Max. I would lost you you, hands down. So I can’t take the person I know is gonna beat me, ya know? I did want you in the Final 3 with me though. I’m sorry if you’re hurt by that but it really is just because I want to win so badly. You know how I feel about you, Dorothy. I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings at all.

You didn't hurt me bb <3 and my decision was not finalized at that moment.